Continuing from the last post:
Hand #2
About three-quarters way into the last game of the day, I ended up with a hand like this:
EP, sitting opposite me at the table threw an 8D. I had three ways of doing this:
1) Continue to wait for 4D.
2) Pung 8D, discard 3D/5D and be ready to go out on 3D/5D.
3) Ignore the 8D, and hope to draw/chow 6D to make 567D, discard 3D and wait to go out with 7D or 9D.
If I go for option 1) or 2), I would get the points for full flush with a few other small fans only. There is really no difference between 1) and 2) in points, but 2) would not be as good because I'll be exposing one more unrelated meld of the suit, and put other players on defensive to a full flush situation without gaining from it at all.
If I go for option 3), I would get points for three pure shifted chows if I go out with 9D and four pure shifted chows if I go out with 7D, on top of the points for full flush. But it was a choice between making ready immediately and an additional 16 or 32 points.
No other 6D, 7D had been discarded. 4D, 5D and 9D were also still available, but I can’t remember if it was one or two tiles. More importantly, none of the other players had any intimidating exposures or looked like they were ready to go out.
I decided to be greedy and go for option 3), but it didn’t play out after all. After some draws, AJ on my left threw a 7D, and just as I was about the grab it, WJ on my right yelled “PUNG!” excitedly. In one fell swoop my hopes were dashed. 7D was now dead and I had let 4D and 8D pass me by.
EP felt that taking the chance was worth it, but I wasn’t so sure, considering the stage of progression in the game by the time I had to make the decision. In the previous KP hand, EP argues that the lateness of the game progression and the remaining tiles in the wall shouldn’t affect whether one should or should not abandon a ready hand for a bigger hand, but I have to disagree. It makes a big difference, at least to me. In this case, I bitterly regret the decision to go for the more valuable hand.
Anyway, I managed to draw another 5D, and hoped for the last to go out, but time ran out. The last tile was drawn by AJ. With bated breath we all waited, and she threw a fresh 6B. Both EP and WJ cried “HU!” while I turned my remaining tiles face down in disgust.
Incidentally, during the same game, WJ also made a decision in favour of advancing her tiles towards a ready hand and sacrificing some points in doing so. After killing off my much needed 7Ds in a pung, and some draws and discards, she had:
Seems pretty upfront to me, possibility for All pungs + Mixed Shifted Pungs + Upper Four. If she was lucky enough to self draw all the tiles, she could have three concealed pungs too. At this point 6D, 6B, 8C were all fresh. None had been discarded.
Then I threw 7C (I was on her left). She took it for a meld of 789C and discarded the remaining 8C in order to make ready. This deprived her of a potential 14 points and maybe even points for two or three concealed pungs. However, at that point in time, she felt it was worth it for the advancement to readiness. After the game was over, both AJ and I agreed that we would have kept the 8Cs. However, it is again, the decision between a quicker or bigger win.
Ultimately, it seems that there is no right or wrong strategy. Players seem to have been able to do well with either style of playing. I thought about it all the way home from EP’s place and decided to stick with what I was comfortable with. I am by nature a more conservative player, so I would mostly play towards smaller but surer wins. So what if I would probably never have the chance to make Big Four Winds in my whole life? (Ummm….ok, ok, I’ll stop whining about that “ALMOST” hand…)
Hand #2
About three-quarters way into the last game of the day, I ended up with a hand like this:
EP, sitting opposite me at the table threw an 8D. I had three ways of doing this:
1) Continue to wait for 4D.
2) Pung 8D, discard 3D/5D and be ready to go out on 3D/5D.
3) Ignore the 8D, and hope to draw/chow 6D to make 567D, discard 3D and wait to go out with 7D or 9D.
If I go for option 1) or 2), I would get the points for full flush with a few other small fans only. There is really no difference between 1) and 2) in points, but 2) would not be as good because I'll be exposing one more unrelated meld of the suit, and put other players on defensive to a full flush situation without gaining from it at all.
If I go for option 3), I would get points for three pure shifted chows if I go out with 9D and four pure shifted chows if I go out with 7D, on top of the points for full flush. But it was a choice between making ready immediately and an additional 16 or 32 points.
No other 6D, 7D had been discarded. 4D, 5D and 9D were also still available, but I can’t remember if it was one or two tiles. More importantly, none of the other players had any intimidating exposures or looked like they were ready to go out.
I decided to be greedy and go for option 3), but it didn’t play out after all. After some draws, AJ on my left threw a 7D, and just as I was about the grab it, WJ on my right yelled “PUNG!” excitedly. In one fell swoop my hopes were dashed. 7D was now dead and I had let 4D and 8D pass me by.
EP felt that taking the chance was worth it, but I wasn’t so sure, considering the stage of progression in the game by the time I had to make the decision. In the previous KP hand, EP argues that the lateness of the game progression and the remaining tiles in the wall shouldn’t affect whether one should or should not abandon a ready hand for a bigger hand, but I have to disagree. It makes a big difference, at least to me. In this case, I bitterly regret the decision to go for the more valuable hand.
Anyway, I managed to draw another 5D, and hoped for the last to go out, but time ran out. The last tile was drawn by AJ. With bated breath we all waited, and she threw a fresh 6B. Both EP and WJ cried “HU!” while I turned my remaining tiles face down in disgust.
Incidentally, during the same game, WJ also made a decision in favour of advancing her tiles towards a ready hand and sacrificing some points in doing so. After killing off my much needed 7Ds in a pung, and some draws and discards, she had:
Seems pretty upfront to me, possibility for All pungs + Mixed Shifted Pungs + Upper Four. If she was lucky enough to self draw all the tiles, she could have three concealed pungs too. At this point 6D, 6B, 8C were all fresh. None had been discarded.
Then I threw 7C (I was on her left). She took it for a meld of 789C and discarded the remaining 8C in order to make ready. This deprived her of a potential 14 points and maybe even points for two or three concealed pungs. However, at that point in time, she felt it was worth it for the advancement to readiness. After the game was over, both AJ and I agreed that we would have kept the 8Cs. However, it is again, the decision between a quicker or bigger win.
Ultimately, it seems that there is no right or wrong strategy. Players seem to have been able to do well with either style of playing. I thought about it all the way home from EP’s place and decided to stick with what I was comfortable with. I am by nature a more conservative player, so I would mostly play towards smaller but surer wins. So what if I would probably never have the chance to make Big Four Winds in my whole life? (Ummm….ok, ok, I’ll stop whining about that “ALMOST” hand…)
4 comments:
Going for Four Pure Shifted Chows is always a good option. Even if you don't succeed, there is always (Three) Pure Shifted Chows to fall back on.
So, for your hand, even if Four Pure Shifted Chows had been rendered impossible by WJ's pung of 7d, the (Three) Pure Shifted Chows was still possible, although you did not manage to finish it. Well, too bad, that cannot be helped.
Still you know your playing attitude (don't take risks, win small but fast), then stick to your game plan and don't moan so much if your (wrong) decision did cause you a win.
As for my point about the lateness of the game and the decision to go for a bigger hand, it was in reference to particular tiles getting stuck in the wall, or being held by opponents. This is more applicable to honour tiles unfortunately.
In KP's case, he had to decide whether to go for All Terminals and Honours, based on the knowledge that few wind tiles had been discarded. His consideration would be: is it worth waiting for more wind tiles to fall into his hand? If opponents had them, would they discard them? If they did not have them, would he self-draw the tiles himself?
In your case, 7d was dead, so you can still aim for (Three) Pure Shifted Chows with the crucial 6d. If you managed to draw either a 3d or 9d, you would have been ready for a 6d discard. Unfortunately, that was not the case. But then again, WJ winning that hand was also a case of AJ being extremely foolish and careless to discard a fresh tile (i.e. the 6b) on the last discard. Has she not done so and the hand ended in a draw, would you be less disgusted with your decision to try for (Four or Three) Pure Shifted Chows?
Yeah, I figured I whine a bit too much sometimes.
I never did have too much trouble until I started thinking about how I play and how to improve things. Seems like its making things worse you know.
I think I'm going to take a step back and not think so hard to make a perfect play or best strategy etc and just do what is comfortable.
Then again, there won't be much scope to report if we didn't have all this analysis and differences in opinion going on huh?
As to this unfortunate full flush hand, I just chuck it to luck or fate and leave it. And to answer your question, ending in a draw would still make me question the decision to try for a three/four pure shifted chows hand.
Ah, analysing hands is one thing, but whining is another. If hands are only about personal choices (without any whit of logical rationale or mathematical possibilities or psychological tricks), would such hands be worth discussing then?
I prefer to think about the more discussable aspects of playing. For example, your agony over not melding the 8d triplet is not a big deal, since doing so does not advance your wait; it is already waiting on a 4d. Doing so reduces the possibility of making Pure Shifted Chows instead! If you did not pung the 8d, and if 6d appeared before 7d, you could have melded the 567d sequence, then wait for 7d. Melding 8d makes you miss the chance totally, for no good reason. Since at that point, you did not know that WJ was going to meld a 7d triplet (before you were ready), the chance for a Three/Four Pure Shifted Chows was still very good! All it takes was for your left-hand opponent (AJ) to feed you 6d, which was possible.
Upon much reflection, I think I shall attempt Four Pure Shifted Chows more often. It is worth the same number of points as All Terminals and Honours, but it is easier to do, without needing a particularly good starting hand. It need not be a full flush hand either, although that would be a bonus (for a combined total of 58 points, including All Chows!).
Ok, thought about it a bit more:
I do realise now that the 8D pung was actually the worst of the strategies.
I see your point about the 6D. So the conclusion is that no matter what, it was a logical move to ignore that 8D pung, since 4D could come along, and I'll be ready anyway, or 6D could come along and I'll get my more valuable hand anyway. whether it be three/four pure shifted chows. The fact that the hand didn't make it is attributable simply to plain luck.
I'm not sure why I didn't see it earlier.
So the real question in this case should be, if a 4D had come along, would I go out or would I wait for 6D or 7D to make that bigger hand?
I think I would go out.
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